Today's Date:

Interview given by M. Bernard Kouchner, Minister of Foreign and European Affairs, to the Israeli "Yediot Ahronoth" newspaper

THE MINISTER - (…) All the members of the present government, including Mr Netanyahu, are convinced of the necessity of two States. What are we waiting for? Why isn't Israel unilaterally declaring that she is ready to recognize a Palestinian State immediately, or helping an uncorrupted administration to be put in place? Or even contributing to the birth of the Palestinian State, which would be a tremendous gesture of help. Today, people must talk to the Palestinians, the PLO, to Abu Mazen and Mr Fayad. (…)

Israel has evacuated Gaza and Lebanon, I know. It was a fine gesture, but you did so without political concessions, without negotiations. Go in, strike, and then leave. To my mind, that isn't how to conduct a policy. (…)

THE MINISTER - Perhaps. If there are obstacles, these must be overcome. France, through President Sarkozy, has proposed her support and help to enable negotiations to take place in Paris, and the proposal is still on the table. (…)

THE MINISTER - That's a mistake. France has an Arab policy, but I hope it won't be exactly the same. It isn't a pro-Arab policy. It's a policy which views the Arab world, the Arab countries, as important countries we have to work with, although they are different from us, because they are different from us. (…) We have a policy of friendship with Israel, we remember the reasons for her creation and her existence, but we have ones of friendship with the Arab world too. It's the result of a political process and also the fruit of strategic thinking.

HEZBOLLAH

THE MINISTER - (…) The Europeans haven't included Hezbollah on the list of terrorist organizations. They are a section of the Lebanese population who, politically, play a very important role. I've long known the Shi'ite people who, for years, were regarded in Lebanon as the dregs of the earth and have found themselves in a situation of deadlock. For some, whom I condemn, extremism was the solution. I am, of course, in favour of political dialogue. I don't regret talking to Hezbollah. I ask forgiveness from those who were victims of the last war or of other bomb attacks, but I think it had to be done. I am of the view that it's always easier to talk to your friends than your enemies, but to make peace, you have to talk to those who make war.

(…)

LEBANON WAR/ISRAEL

THE MINISTER - Of course. But there are also Lebanese and Palestinian children who are dead. Their families too have the right to seek to understand what is happening. (…) That doesn't mean I'm a pacifist and, personally, I am used to scenes of suffering. I am also realistic about the results. I know at times it's necessary to make war, as seldom as possible, when attempts to make peace have failed. And these wars always end with peace. Israel's security is terribly important to me. Lebanon's peace and integrity too.

THE MINISTER - Yes, and also when I was in Lebanon and in Gaza, where I worked at Shifa hospital. It's always very dangerous. When you put yourself in one camp, you risk adopting a somewhat simplistic, pacifist or neutral approach. I hate neutrality and I love impartiality. I'm never neutral. Working in the humanitarian sector, I've learned that you can never be neutral, but that you can be impartial, offer the same treatment to the two peoples. (…)

IRAN/MIDDLE EAST

THE MINISTER - And regional stability too. Iran is a key element in the Middle East, particularly as regards her nuclear project, a potential risk we attach very great importance to. (…)

THE MINISTER - But he was right! That didn't stop him being a man of peace. He bombed it, but he also wanted peace and knew there was no military solution.

THE MINISTER - I hope we'll never get to that point. There are a lot of other solutions to envisage, other paths to explore, peace negotiations to conduct. There must be dogged diplomatic efforts. Let's listen, negotiate, negotiate again and prepare ourselves for the worst.

THE MINISTER - Of course. But when the Iranian president says this, he immediately gets a determined reaction from France who makes known her disagreement and alarm. (…)

ISRAEL/BEING JEWISH

I am among those who, in my country, still know where Israel comes from, why she was created in conformity with a United Nations decision, that it wasn't an evil colonial conquest, but a consequence of the chronic anti-Semitism and Holocaust. I think that Zionism was the Jewish people's national liberation movement. Now they have been liberated, the mission has been accomplished, Israel is a State which has to conduct a policy like the other members of the family of nations, even though it has to protect its security more than other States do, and so must live in peace with its neighbours, the only way to live in security. (…)

THE MINISTER - I was a child at the time. Not every member of my family, alas, survived the war: my grandfather and grandmother died in Auschwitz. Happily, my parents weren't arrested. My father was a member of the Resistance and went on living in Paris. Sometimes he lived in the countryside. Many more of the French people protected Jews than people generally think, and it's important to say so. We lived in the countryside around Poitiers and many friends protected us.

THE MINISTER - That would be an honour! The answer is probably yes. I come back to the expression I use in the book. I'm Jewish when I want to be! It depends whom I'm talking to. Hence the whole difficulty and the choice we have to face. I'm half Jewish. I'm Jewish when I want to be, when anti-Semitism threatens. You can decide not to care about this, but reality, history and racism are things which always hound you and which, at the end of the day, catch up on you. You can claim not to have a Jewish name. I hope for those who do this that it protects them.

THE MINISTER - Never. Some people have, but no one in my family./.