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State visit to India
Interview given by Jacques Chirac, President of the Republic, to the Indian weekly magazine India Today Paris, February 17, 2006 Q. Mr President, what are your expectations from this State visit?
THE PRESIDENT First, it's a very great pleasure, it has been eight years now since I went to India. And I am especially delighted with this opportunity to go back to this great country, for which I have great admiration. I firmly believe that between us, we have all the assets required to build a special partnership in every possible field: India as a great emerging power, and France, at the core of the European Union. However, the full potential of our relations has not yet been tapped. How to do so will be a central topic in the discussions I will be having with Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh. I also believe that this dialogue, built as it is on trust like that which our two countries enjoy with our major partners is a key element in the assertion of that peaceful international order so ardently desired by both our States. Q. It is the fourth or fifth time you are actually going to India?
THE PRESIDENT Yes, indeed, I went to India at least five or six times, often privately, or as Mayor of Paris. And also in 1976, on an official visit as Prime Minister. Q. It's your second official visit as President, then. As you may be one of the longest ongoing world leaders now, what are the changes you see in our country?
THE PRESIDENT First of all, a constant strengthening of unity, union and democracy. It's without doubt a great example, a shining example for the rest of the world. Second, a striking unchallenged economic development, accompanied gradually by improvements in the social situation and, little by little, an improvement in terms of eradicating poverty. Thirdly, an increasingly strong thrust in the direction of science, with the increasingly strong presence of India in the scientific arena, especially in terms of cutting-edge technology. As shows the personality of your President, an eminent scientist himself! And I think things are evolving in a very natural and obvious manner. I am not surprised by this evolution: India has been around for a very long time, and has stood its ground for a long time as a beacon in terms of cultural and scientific achievements. This is why India should be ahead of others. I am especially delighted with the agreement between India and France on the Gupta art exhibition. And I have in mind, for later, the idea of an art exhibition on the former civilizations of the Indus. Q. It was your landmark visit to India in 1998 that laid the foundation of the Indo-French relationship, which was followed by a series of high-level visits. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh visited France last year to give momentum to the relationship, what is your vision of the Indo-French bilateral relationship? Do you think the relationship is yet to realize its full potential?
THE PRESIDENT Our relations have always been excellent. But indeed in 1998, during my State visit for the celebrations to mark the 50th anniversary of India's independence, we gave new momentum to our bilateral relations primarily by setting up a strategic dialogue between India and France. Since then, these relations have continued to grow stronger. As you know, I was the first one to argue in favour of India, a responsible power, being given the status of permanent member of the United Nations Security Council. If our partnership is to retain its vitality, it must be nourished by contacts at the highest level, which is precisely what we do with our major partners Germany and the United Kingdom in Europe, of course, but also with the United States of America, China, Russia, Brazil and others. The visit of Prime Minister Dr Singh to Paris on 12 September last year was particularly important in that it marked India's continuing commitment to our relations, and this is also the purpose of my visit to India. CIVILIAN NUCLEAR COOPERATION/NSG Q. We understand that India and France are working on an agreement to provide a framework of civilian nuclear cooperation. What is the status?
THE PRESIDENT France was the first country to argue at international level in favour of India, as a responsible power, gaining access to civilian nuclear technologies in order to meet its enormous energy requirements while at the same time preserving the environment. Our efforts to educate opinion finally led to a positive change in mentalities. The process of reflection initiated by France, since the Indo-American declaration on 18 July, continues today with the support of the American administration and other major partners. Recognition of a special status for India with respect to the Nuclear Suppliers' Group (NSG) is a priority for us. We are close to reaching an agreement, but more work is required on both sides. As concerns cooperation with France, the draft agreement we are preparing reflects the scope of the cooperation we are prepared to embark upon with India in this field, in full compliance with our international undertakings. Q. If you consider India responsible, why is there a delay in the agreement?
THE PRESIDENT Because it is a multilateral issue. France stands firmly alongside India, a responsible power, in this question of modifying the rules of the NSG. It is only if these modifications are allowed that we can reconcile our aim to cooperate in this area with the constraints imposed by our international undertakings. But before that, India must have a specific status with respect to the NSG to allow it access to the necessary technologies while respecting the principle of non-proliferation. Q. Will you persuade other NSG members?
THE PRESIDENT We have been trying for many years. The main person to persuade was Mr Bush if we had to move forward. But we still have to make efforts to build a consensus and France is actively working on that. CLEMENCEAU/POLLUTION ELIMINATION Q. The Clemenceau controversy must have been embarrassing. Do you think it could have been avoided?
THE PRESIDENT I regret that the controversy happened despite the efforts we undertook to ensure the environmental and health soundness of the operation. As you know, the French Administrative Court has ruled that the export of the Clemenceau to India should be suspended. After thorough consideration I have decided that the ship should be brought back to France and that a final solution be found for its dismantling. Q. Do you think it's right to use third countries for dumping environmentally-dangerous substances?
THE PRESIDENT This raises more generally the very important question of the dismantlement of old ships. There are hundreds of them worldwide and their number is increasing. It is a very serious problem since we cannot and should not export hazardous waste, nor can we keep these ships in wreck yards. Therefore, I have decided that we will consult with our European partners in order to consider strengthening the European depollution capabilities and to accelerate global discussions on standards that should surround the export of ships for dismantlement in third countries. FRANCO-INDIAN ECONOMIC RELATIONS/ACADEMIC EXCHANGES/VISAS Q. Bilateral economic relations between France and India are still dismal. Trade between the two countries is barely 3.5 billion per year or less than a third that India does with China. Do you intend to do something about it?
THE PRESIDENT Trade flows, in my view, are still too low. One of the purposes of my trip to India is to provide a boost to these exchanges. It is one of my aims on which of course the Prime Minister and I see eye to eye to develop economic exchanges and boost them significantly. Our economic relations are developing at a very steady pace, having grown by 30% in 2004 and 42% in 2005. In 2005, Indian airlines ordered almost 250 aircraft from Airbus, which will obviously impact trade flows between us. However, it is clear that our economic relations are neither on the same level as our political relations nor commensurate with the capacity of French companies, which are among the world leaders in sectors vital for the development of India. Many of them were keen to accompany me on this State visit to demonstrate their desire to establish durable partnerships with their Indian counterparts. Dr Singh and I have set a target of doubling the volume of our bilateral trade in the next five years. To achieve this, we have decided to adopt a proactive policy of establishing closer relations between the economic decision-makers in our two countries and setting up partnerships between businesses in priority sectors: infrastructure, information technologies, pharmaceutical products, the environment, cutting-edge and new technologies, agribusiness and the automotive and aviation industries. We have also agreed to make a particular effort to stimulate the development of relations between French and Indian SMEs. Q. Who is responsible for this poor state of economic links the Indian authorities, French authorities or the companies themselves?
THE PRESIDENT Everyone collectively. Anyway, the situation right now is much better than it has been in the past. I know the importance that Prime Minister Dr Singh attaches to improving the condition of access for foreign companies to the Indian market and the protection of intellectual property. Tariff and non-tariff barriers still hamper exports of certain French products like wine. Sectors such as distributive trades and financial services are still comparatively closed to foreign capital. Progress in these fields would facilitate the strengthening of our relations. There is also strong political will on both sides, a clear determination on the part of the French authorities to boost trade with India, likewise on the Indian side: there is evidence that India wants to develop its exchanges with France. In particular at the level of universities, grandes ιcoles [high-ranking schools] we are seeing a desire for a real initiative. For instance, ESSEC, a high-ranking business school has made an agreement with Ahmedabad Business School to recognize diploma equivalence, and to encourage young French students to go to India and vice versa. So we want to boost these links. Q. But all this depends on a liberalized visa regime. While India issues about 600 visas per day, the French numbers are low. Isn't that a barrier?
THE PRESIDENT We will be looking at this issue with as open a mind as possible. ARCELOR/MITTAL Q. On the Arcelor case and your reaction to that, isn't there something of a contradiction between your willingness to develop commercial relations and your reservations?
THE PRESIDENT I would not put it quite in these terms. First of all, the company which is willing to take over Arcelor is not an Indian company. It is a Dutch company. Q. But it is owned and operated by a person of Indian origin?
THE PRESIDENT Certainly, but the problem has nothing to do with L.N. Mittal. It is a Dutch company and Arcelor is a Luxemburg company. It has nothing to do with France and India. Q. But what does your government think of the bid?
THE PRESIDENT The French authorities are concerned about the shareholders and the company. Again, there is room for debate on questions like differences in corporate cultures between Arcelor and Mittal, or the conditions of the bid. Q. If shareholders' interests were better understood, would you not have any objection to the bid?
THE PRESIDENT Again, the French government is a stakeholder, not a shareholder. Given the circumstances of the case, it would appear that it is not in the best interest of the company. It is up to the two companies involved to agree on the terms. It has got nothing to do with India. The main shareholder is Indian, but he could be of any other citizenship. MOHAMMED CARTOONS/IRAQ Q. You made a measured statement about the cartoon controversy. Do you think some people will deliberately rake up the controversy to create a rift between the Western world and the Islamic world?
THE PRESIDENT I am appalled by what happened as a result of the publication of these cartoons. I am of course in favour of the freedom of the press, which is a pillar of democracy. But I am equally for respecting everyone's sensibilities. And I am also in favour of a dialogue between cultures and civilization, against confrontation. So I deplore this situation. Q. Do you think unilateral action by certain countries such as what happened in Iraq contributed to this situation?
THE PRESIDENT Are you referring to the military operation in Iraq? We have always stood against it and we still think that it was a bad initiative. Q. Do you think US troops should withdraw from Iraq?
THE PRESIDENT It is a difficult situation in Iraq. International troops will eventually have to withdraw. We need to know when. And we want full restoration of Iraq's unity and sovereignty. MULTIPOLARITY/NEW WORLD ORDER Q. You have been a champion of multipolarity, but at the same time, you agree with the US on some of the issues. Is not your stand on multipolarity a bit weakened by this?
THE PRESIDENT Indeed, I am deeply attached to the principle of multipolarity. And I think there is no other means by which we can maintain a balance in the world. It flows naturally. When you look around you, frankly, countries like India and China are political centres at least as important as the US or Europe. That is the reason why I continue to campaign actively in favour of India becoming a permanent member of the Security Council. New powers are emerging in the world, whether countries like India or China or groups of countries like ASEAN or Mercosur. They form new groupings that combine economic power and political will. It is only by recognizing this new reality of a multipolar and interdependent world that we will be able to build an international order that is both safer and more just. We must all work together to deal with the challenges of this new century and help create this new world order which both India and France have always called for, based on those values of democracy, freedom and human rights that form the basis of the United Nations Charter. This is how we will make sure of the support of all peoples, their liberty and respect for their identity. Q. Are you now closer to President Bush than even Tony Blair is, as you speak almost in similar voices on many international issues?
THE PRESIDENT I don't understand why you say that Q. For instance, on issues like Iran and the nuclear tangle?
IRAN/NUCLEAR THE PRESIDENT No. On the nuclear problem, I am in favour of a balance. We must stop and prevent nuclear proliferation. Q. What about the Iran issue? Do you think there should be sanctions against this country, or should diplomacy be given a chance? THE PRESIDENT We are in close consultation with India, as indeed with all our partners, with the aim of persuading Iran to comply fully with its obligations in the question of non-proliferation. This issue is vital for international peace and security and for the effectiveness of non-proliferation arrangements throughout the world. Despite the efforts undertaken by the Europeans over the last three years, we are unfortunately forced to admit today that Tehran has not responded to the European proposals and has gone back on the undertakings given. In light of this situation, every country and every institutional body must accept its responsibilities. The International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna will be presenting its report to the Security Council in March. I hope that between now and then, Iran will decide to seize the hand that is still extended to it. Q. Do you think rogue countries which endanger international peace should be deprived access to nuclear energy? Also in extreme cases, should we use nuclear weapons to neutralize those countries?
THE PRESIDENT If you are referring to my speech on France's nuclear doctrine, you will see there is no change in our position on the subject, which remains that of deterrence. SECULARISM Q. The controversy over the turban ban in France evoked concern in India, why was the ban imposed?
THE PRESIDENT I know that this question has given rise to a great deal of misunderstanding in India and I am glad of this opportunity to explain the situation in greater detail. Wearing of the Sikh turban is not forbidden in France and Sikhs are free to practise their religion. If they are able to do this, as are all those of other religions, it is because France is a secular State that guarantees respect for all religious beliefs in a climate of harmony and tolerance. Certain types of behaviour made it necessary for us to vote a law to guarantee our tradition of secularism. This law was drafted after very wide consultation and adopted by a very large majority, transcending all political parties and opinions. It applies only in State schools, primary and secondary. It does not in any way constitute a general prohibition against displaying religious symbols or signs. As concerns the Sikhs, we encountered difficulties with a very small number of cases. Close dialogue was established with the families concerned and representatives of the Sikh community in France, with which we have always enjoyed excellent relations. This law is now well understood and accepted. INDIA/UNSC/G8 Q. It seems some permanent members of United Nations Security Council don't want an expansion. Will it happen and what about India's candidature?
THE PRESIDENT For the United Nations to play its role fully, it is necessary to reinforce its authority and legitimacy by, in particular, improving the representativeness of its various agencies. Opening up the Security Council to include new permanent members is a priority in this respect. I believe firmly that this reform will be imposed in the end, since it is eminently logical. France will not spare its efforts to promote the candidature of India and support the strategy which India may define to gain access to the Security Council. Q. Some countries have supported India's entry into the G8. What is your position?
THE PRESIDENT This is the direction in which history is leading us. That's why in 2003 I invited the Indian Prime Minister to the broader G8 dialogue organized by France in Evian. The world needs the voice of the great emerging countries such as India to be heard in the G8. TERRORISM Q. Terrorism has become a global scourge. What more can India and France do to combat international terrorism?
THE PRESIDENT Nothing can justify such acts. France knows the toll that blind terrorism exacts on India. Faced with this global threat, we must reinforce cooperation, which is the only way of dismantling the networks of logistical support and funding. The fight against terrorism is, therefore, a key element in our dialogue with India. We are particularly keen to ensure that this fight is carried on in full compliance with the law. The United Nations must also fully play its role. Here, France supports the Indian proposal of a general convention on terrorism. We have indeed set up a specific joint working group to compare our analyses and adapt to new developments in this threat. DEFENCE COOPERATION/SCORPENE Q. A major indicator of a greater degree of trust is that India and France have enhanced their defence cooperation, the Scorpene submarine deal has been cleared and we believe during your visit to India defence cooperation will be further strengthened. What more are you planning to enhance defence cooperation between the two countries?
THE PRESIDENT You are right to emphasize the exemplary nature of the agreement to supply the "Scorpene" submarine, which corresponds perfectly to the general spirit that permeates all our bilateral relations. This is not simply a commercial contract but a genuine joint industrial project accompanied by broad transfer of technology and know-how. The signature of a framework cooperation agreement in the field of defence by the French Minister of Defence, Mme Michθle Alliot-Marie and her Indian counterpart, Mr Pranab Mukherjee, will give formal recognition to the relations of trust that have existed for many years between our two armed forces. It should facilitate implementation of joint projects in the field of key defence equipment. You are aware of how long our relations date back in the field of military aviation, for example, and the degree of trust that characterizes them. SCIENTIFIC COOPERATION/SPACE/MEGHA-TROPIQUES Q. Another area of cooperation between our two countries is in the field of scientific cooperation and, specifically, space cooperation, what more is on the anvil to cement the partnership between the two countries?
THE PRESIDENT India is one of France's most important partners in terms of space cooperation. The CNES, the French Space Agency has with its counterpart, the ISRO, a certain number of ambitious cooperation projects. The project currently the furthest advanced is the launch in 2009 of the first Franco-Indian satellite, "Megha-Tropiques", which is designed to study tropical weather systems, particularly the monsoons that have so great an influence on the life of the population and the Indian economy as a whole. CULTURE Q. India and France are time-tested strategic partners but what more do you think is required from both sides to make it a dynamic partnership? What more is your government planning to enhance Indo-French cultural, educational and people-to-people links?
THE PRESIDENT India and France, both countries embodying a great culture, enjoy very long and rich cultural relations. Your country has always exerted a great fascination and not just on intellectuals. Many French people attend the concerts of your great classical musicians when they visit France. Indian cinema is increasingly well known and appreciated in France, as we can see from the many numbers of people who went to cinemas to watch the films Swadesh and Devdas. I am also pleased that French cinema is beginning to find an audience in India. Cultural cooperation is a dimension of our relations to which I attach great importance, since it guarantees long-lasting ties between countries. This is why I am happy that one of the great projects particularly dear to my heart, the exhibition of Gupta art, will be going ahead at the Grand Palais in 2007. When the exhibition opens, I will be thinking of the great Jawaharlal Nehru, Gιnιral de Gaulle and Andrι Malraux, who, 47 years ago, together inaugurated the exhibition "Trιsors de l'Inde", which all who saw still remember. At the same time, a programme of related events will be organized in India around exhibitions, concerts and ballets. Conservation of heritage is another important dimension of our cultural cooperation. The remarkable rehabilitation of the historic centre of Ahmedabad by French architects is part of this process. STUDENT EXCHANGES If there is a field in which we must do much more, it is that of exchanges between our students. The number of Indian students in France has doubled in five years but it is still well below our potential for cooperation with a country like India that has 225 universities. We must multiply contacts between them and our research laboratories and other institutions of higher education. This is a subject which the Prime Minister and myself identified as a priority during our discussions last September. In order to achieve this, we will be reinforcing our action and will be creating a centre for studies in France to facilitate dissemination of information and procedures for Indian students./.
Embassy of France in the United States - February 17, 2006
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