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Iraq/kidnapping of French journalists

Interview given by Dominique de Villepin, Minister of the Interior, Internal Security and Local Freedoms, to the "Le Parisien – Aujourd'hui" newspaper (excerpts)

Paris, September 13, 2004

Q. – Will Christian Chesnot, Georges Malbrunot and their chauffeur soon be released?

THE MINISTER – The whole of France wants to believe that a favourable outcome is going to be found. What are we doing for this? First of all, we're trying to use every channel we can to gather together the maximum information and get across as much as possible of what we want to say to those likely either to be sheltering the kidnappers or to have an influence on them. This is a process of positive, patient, determined and wide-ranging action: leaving nothing to chance. But all this is happening in a country abandoned to chaos. So we have to use a lot of avenues, a lot of interlocutors, a lot of intermediaries. Then, we're making the best use of where our strength and difference lie: national unity. There has been a genuine upsurge in our country, which has created strong feelings and movement on the international stage. The French – regardless of their origins, sensibilities and backgrounds – have united. And in particular, of course, the French Muslims – the French Council of the Muslim Faith (CFCM – Conseil français du Culte musulman) – have mobilized, sent a delegation to Iraq, forged contacts and said forcefully, since this was the pretext the kidnappers put forward, that the Act on secularity (laïcité) doesn't divide the French, isn't aimed against Muslims, isn't an Act on the Muslim headscarf, but aims solely to enforce an essential principle: laïcité. Yes, through laïcité, we are more united, enriched by our shared values. This national will is a plus for our hostages.

Q. – Can we hope to halt this Islamic terrorism which is spreading?

THE MINISTER – Islamic terrorism isn't what people believe or say it is. It isn't today, in terms of the number of terrorists, an omnipotent threat. Admittedly, world terrorism has the capacity to strike us very hard: we saw this in New York, Washington, Madrid. We've just seen it in Ossetia. But it's a limited capacity. Where does terrorism’s strength lie? The capacity to espouse causes which aren't fundamentally its own. Al-Qaida is taking up more and more local causes which it exploits. It's exploiting demands in the Middle East, Iraq, in Chechnya. And it claims to serve them. It tries to cloak its will for destruction in a pseudo-legitimacy which has resonance with certain peoples.

Second observation: terrorism has no territory of its own in the world. So, it takes up the causes of the world's wounds. Wherever you have fallow land, a destructured State which is unravelling, terrorism emerges and, like gangrene, sets in. There wasn't any terrorism in Iraq before the Iraq crisis. Today, terrorism is proliferating in Iraq.

Thirdly: terrorism is capable of exploiting every skill, every frustration and every humiliation.

Q. – Doesn't that foster pessimism?

THE MINISTER – The more problems we resolve, the more levers of action we take away from terrorists. Since terrorism has many faces. It is carried out by people who know our systems, speak our languages, are integrated into our societies and who, at a given moment, sense something snap and no longer feel they fit in – what I call wounded or bruised identities. These people turn against countries where they no longer feel at home. But terrorism is a chain. You then have preachers who use religion, hijacking it, to attract people who are searching, suffering doubts, are lost.

Then you have organizers trained through terrorist rings. They have been through Chechnya, Afghanistan, Iraq. There they have learned techniques. And then at the end of the chain, there are those often known as "mules" in the language of drugs. These, at a given moment, serve as cannon fodder: they put explosives belts around their waists. We see this in the Middle East where the feeling of injustice fuels hatred. We need to break this. And to do so, first rule: don’t be frightened. Let's not fuel terrorism with our own fear. Second rule: don't give in to weakness. Weakness is giving in to the temptation of an immediate solution: using force without any international legitimacy. A terrible spiral. We sometimes see this in our families. When there's an argument which degenerates, one person gets very heated and then the other person gets even more heated and the shouting gets louder and louder. It's the "parrot" effect which we also find in the international arena: a bomb, a violent response, another bomb, an even more violent response. Is security increasing in the Middle East? In Iraq? Obviously not. Terrorism has to be fought by all the appropriate means (police, judiciary, intelligence services), but while remaining true to our values and democracy. An opportunist and unpredictable adversary won't be defeated in the boxing ring, but on the judo mat. In boxing you are guaranteed to receive blows, or even be knocked out. In judo, you use the opponent's strength and turn his momentum against him. There's conservation of effort, precision of movement and loyalty to what you are.

Q. – Today is there a threat against France?

THE MINISTER – There isn't, today, a specifically identified threat. But no country can believe it runs no risk. The more you take the risk of lowering your guard, the more you believe you are "safe", the more likely you are to be hit. Hence the battle I'm conducting on the intelligence front: to maximize the coordination of intelligence in France, with the creation of the Internal Intelligence Committee: the right hand can't not know what the left hand is doing. (...)./.

Embassy of France in the United States - September 14, 2004