Today's Date:

France's Foreign Policy

Washington, November 28, 2004

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Not just here in Washington, but around the world, there are new questions about what to expect over the next four years from President Bush and the new faces in his Cabinet.

Helping us look ahead to the challenges on the world stage, three ambassadors to the United States from key European countries: Jean- David Levitte is the French ambassador to the United States; Wolfgang Ischinger is the German ambassador to the United States; and Sir David Manning is the British ambassador to the United States.

Welcome back to "LATE EDITION," Ambassadors. Appreciate it very much.

And let me begin with the Ukraine, a very sensitive subject very important to the world. I take it that the Western European allies pretty much agree that there has to be a new set of elections.

And we're looking at live pictures now from what's happening in Kiev.

Let's start with the French ambassador to the United States.

JEAN-DAVID LEVITTE, FRANCE'S AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Yes, the presidency of the European Union has said very clearly that probably the best way forward is new elections. And this has been said, but it's for the Ukrainians themselves to decide the best way forward.

BLITZER: And so you don't think it would be good enough for the supreme court in Ukraine to decide the validity of this election? You think that no matter what the supreme court decides, it's important that there be a new election?

LEVITTE: No. We are in a very difficult moment where everybody is trying to find the best scenario forward. And we cannot replace the leaders themselves. That's in their hand.

But from the outside, and also from the inside -- because what is important is for your viewers to understand that there were invited in the room Javier Solana, President Kvashnievsky (ph), and they participated in discussions.

BLITZER: International observers who monitored the elections.

LEVITTE: Yes. And they were also invited to participate in some of the discussions in the last two days.

But now it's for the Ukrainians to decide the best way forward.

BLITZER: What to you think, Ambassador Ischinger?

WALTER ISCHINGER, GERMANY'S AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: I think it is a very important moment. It's a serious moment for the future not only of Ukraine, but also for our effort to have a Europe with no dividing lines anymore.

I think our countries, the European Union, has played a very useful role already in trying to prevent violence from breaking out. And I totally agree with what my friend, Jean-David, has just said.

Our advice is that maybe the best way forward would be new elections. But, of course, the first thing to happen now is for the Ukrainian supreme court to speak. And the entire European Union is standing ready to assist in whatever efforts will be required.

BLITZER: I'll ask Ambassador Manning to answer this question.Is it just a foregone -- is it just a notion that, without any question, these elections were fraudulent, were criminal, if you will?

SIR DAVID MANNING, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: I don't know if they were criminal. I think the assumption is that they were very irregular in the way they were conducted. The E.U. observers obviously thought so. So did the OSCE observers. And you had Senator Lugar, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, in Ukraine for these elections. And it's clear that everybody was very exercised about the way they were conducted.

BLITZER: So, in other words, in your opinion, you agree with your colleagues from France and Germany that there has to be a new set of elections?

MANNING: I think there has to be some new way forward. It's difficult to be prescriptive, and it's ultimately for the Ukrainians, we hope, to resolve this, and above all, peacefully.

But it is quite clear that you don't have millions of people demonstrating across a country for seven days during snowstorms unless something serious has gone wrong.

BLITZER: Are you convinced, Ambassador Levitte, that the European allies, the three, your countries in this particular case, are on the same page as the Bush administration when it comes to Ukraine?

LEVITTE: I do think so.

BLITZER: You do think so?

LEVITTE: Oh, yes. And what is at stake is the future of democracy in Europe.

BLITZER: Is there any difference between Washington and Paris on Ukraine?

LEVITTE: No, of course not. We hope for a good electoral process which will take roots for democracy in Ukraine and beyond. Democracy is our common goal.

BLITZER: The other issue that this all brings in -- and I'll ask Ambassador Ischinger to respond to this and bring you all in -- is President Putin, Vladimir Putin of Russia, has been making some statements in the recent months and taking certain actions which are raising serious concerns, especially here in Washington and I assume in your capitals as well.

For example, this statement he made the other day, on November 17th. I want you to listen to what he said about his nuclear weapons program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): We will continue our efforts to build our armed forces as a whole and their nuclear component.

We are not only conducting research and successfully testing new nuclear missile systems, I'm sure that they will be put into service within the next few years.

And what's more, there will be developments, there will be systems of the kind that other nuclear powers do not have and will not have in the near future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And as you know, Ambassador Ischinger, in addition to these statements, he's taking a strong stance saying the elections were fair in Ukraine. He doesn't want to see a change.

ISCHINGER: Well, I'm not sure whether the Russian position on the elections in Ukraine is not also evolving. We had, just a couple of days ago, a summit meeting between Russian leadership and the European Union.

And while it's clear that one did not totally agree on what exactly is the best way forward, my understanding is that, yes, there is agreement between us, the West and Russia, that first of all this should be a process where the law is obeyed, where the Ukrainian people have the last word, where outside forces should absolutely not intervene, and that we're active only to the extent that we want to assist the forces in Ukraine to find a peaceful solution.

I think there is agreement on these basics. BLITZER: But are you concerned about some of the so-called undemocratic tendencies, statements, actions, that have been coming forward in Russia in recent months?

ISCHINGER: Well, there is a debate in Europe, like there is a debate in Washington, about how to think about certain developments in Russia.

I can tell you what my government thinks. My government believes that President Putin is, in principle, on the right track. That doesn't mean that we find every single step and every specific action that he takes totally, you know, positive. But in principle, our view is that we have made enormous progress between the European Union and Russia.

BLITZER: Ambassador Manning, do you agree with that?

MANNING: I do agree with it. I think what my government wants is a partnership with President Putin's Russia. And we have come an enormously long way since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia is now a very different place from its Soviet predecessor. But that doesn't mean to say that we're going to agree on everything.

If I can just say, Wolf, on this Ukraine issue, I think it's important to be clear we don't want a competitive bidding relationship with Russia over Ukraine. And we don't see any need for that. What we would like to do is see the Ukrainians sort their election out for themselves and see a Ukraine that wants to work with us in the E.U., with you in the United States and with Russia. We don't believe that it has to be one or the other of these options.

So that is how we would like this crisis resolved.

BLITZER: I'm going to ask all three of the ambassadors to stand by. We're going to take a quick commercial break. Much more to discuss, insights on the world's flashpoints, security and other matters. Our conversation with the ambassadors from France, Germany and Britain will continue.

Then, is the Republican Party taking a sharp right turn? Three Republican members of the U.S. Congress speak out on the GOP's direction.

"LATE EDITION" will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "LATE EDITION."

We're talking with the ambassadors to the United States from key allies in Europe: France, Germany and Great Britain. Let's start with the Ambassador Sir David Manning from Britain.

There was that headline in the Daily Mirror right after President Bush was re-elected, and we'll put it up on the screen, with a caption that said, "How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb?" Is that the prevailing attitude in Britain, despite Tony Blair's strong support for the U.S.? The overwhelming majority of the people in England would be critical of the Bush administration?

MANNING: I think that's the prevailing opinion of the Daily Mirror. I think what you have to distinguish between is a newspaper that may have its own views and an acceptance by the vast majority of the British people that the American people will make up their own mind and that that is what democracy is all about.

And as Tony Blair has said, the United States will elect the president, he has elected to work with him. And I think everybody accepts, in Britain, that the United States will reach its own conclusions through its own democratic procedures.

BLITZER: Have you seen a change in France since the election, an attitude of, "Well, that's what the American voted in the democratic election; they have a right to have that position." Or is there still that bitter animosity as a result of the war in Iraq?

LEVITTE: No, there was a poll conducted in France at the same moment, and you have to know that 72 percent of the French people have expressed positive views about the American people. And 90 percent of the French consider it important to maintain good relations with America. That's the mood in France today.

BLITZER: The French president, Jacques Chirac, on November 17th said, referring to the war in Iraq, "Is the world any safer," and I'm quoting now, "I'm not so sure. To a certain extent Saddam Hussein's departure was a positive thing, but it also provoked reactions in a number of countries and from the men and women in Islam, which has made the world more dangerous."

Is the world a more dangerous place now as a result of the U.S.- led invasion and removal of Saddam Hussein?

LEVITTE: History will decide if this war was necessary or not. That's also what President Chirac said.

And we want to work for the future. What is important now is to make Iraq a success story, and France is ready to work for that.

BLITZER: Well, France is not ready to help militarily.

LEVITTE: We will not send troops, but we have participated in the successful negotiation on the Iraqi debt. You know that now there has been a decision to forgive 80 percent of the Iraqi debt, and we hope that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others will join us.

BLITZER: Why not send troops though?

LEVITTE: Well, because we don't think that adding more foreign troops will help to build a more secure Iraq. What is necessary now is to train and equip more Iraqi security forces, and we have proposed to train Iraqi gendarmerie, that is, military force.

BLITZER: What about Germany? Germany has troops and NATO troops in Afghanistan. Why not help the Iraqis prepare for their election?

ISCHINGER: Wolf, I'm not aware of any requests by either the Bush administration or by Prime Minister Allawi to my government to send troops.

BLITZER: If they asked, would you say yes?

ISCHINGER: No, but they haven't asked, and therefore it's a moot question.

BLITZER: Well, they're not going to ask knowing that they're going to get a "no."

ISCHINGER: There is no request.

There is a request on the table, to which we have responded positively, to help train people both in military, as well as in police matters, as well as a number of civilian areas, and that's what we're doing. And we are working very hard on these reconstruction and rehabilitation and training programs. We take that seriously.

We want Americans to feel that we Europeans are not simply sitting on the fence waiting for America to continue to have difficulties. But the true question continues to be not something to which we could respond positively if it were asked. It has not been asked.

BLITZER: This is where Britain disagrees totally with Germany and France, because Britain has sent in thousands of troops to help the United States in Iraq. Why is Britain right and your European colleagues are wrong?

MANNING: We took a different view over Iraq, Wolf, as you know, and this goes back a long way. Our analysis was different, and therefore our actions were different.

I'm not sure now that it helps much to rake this over. I think what my French colleague said is right. We need to look forward. We need build on what's happened in the last few weeks.

We need to help the Iraqis toward their elections. And we need to try and produce an Iraq that is stable and successful, both for its own people and the neighborhood.

And I think those are principles that we can all gather around, even if, in the past, we've had deep differences of analysis about the war itself.

BLITZER: Well, this is what a lot of Americans don't understand, Ambassador Levitte. There is this historic alliance, the NATO alliance, the transatlantic alliance. And the war is history now; the war has happened.

Why can't Germany, France, Britain, the United States, all the allies, now seeing what's there, work together to make sure that there is agreement and that it's a positive outcome as opposed to a negative outcome in Iraq?

LEVITTE: But we are participating, I said...

BLITZER: Militarily we're talking about.

LEVITTE: Not militarily. Because we consider that, more and more, there is a feeling of occupation in Iraq. Maybe we are wrong. But certainly the Iraqi had a feeling of liberation when Baghdad fell, when a bloody dictator fell. But now there is a change of mood.

And that's why we say the main priority for all of us is to train new Iraqi forces, new Iraqi police. And we are ready to do so.

BLITZER: But France is participating militarily in Afghanistan. What's the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq?

LEVITTE: Well, first, you have to know that we work hand in hand in this fight against terror. And we are sharing intelligence and so on. And we considered that to destroy the Taliban regime and al Qaeda was the proper response to 9/11.

And we participated in the war in Afghanistan fully, right from the beginning, with thousands of troops. And we still maintain in Kabul military forces, French military forces. A French general is in charge of the NATO operation. We have special forces trying to get bin Laden on the border with Pakistan. And we are training the new Afghan army.

But for us, Iraq was a different story, because we didn't see at the time stocks of arms of mass destruction or any link between Saddam Hussein...

BLITZER: All right. I want to just briefly go...

LEVITTE: But that's passed. That's passed.

BLITZER: Let's talk about another hot issue right now, Iran, very briefly.And I'll start with you, Ambassador Ischinger. Is there any difference whatsoever on the issue of Iran and nuclear weapons between Germany and the United States?

ISCHINGER: We have had encouraging words from President Bush on repeated occasions with respect to the effort which has become known as the EU-3 effort on Iran, namely an effort by our three governments to try to see whether we can work out a deal, which is now on the table in Vienna, to make Iran, for the time being, suspend its nuclear militarily-related activities and to engage Iran in what we expect would be a long-term agreement to really stop these activities for good.

BLITZER: Have they agreed, based on up-to-the-minute information that you're getting right now? What's the latest that you know, as far as the Iranian position is concerned? ISCHINGER: We are hearing reports so far, wire reports, that Iran has given up on its last, you know, point of opposition to the implementation of the deal.

I am going to be cautious here and wait for final confirmation at the negotiating table in Vienna. But what I've heard over the telephone in the last couple of hours sounds rather more encouraging than what we heard yesterday and the day before.

BLITZER: Is that what you're hearing, Ambassador Manning?

MANNING: It is what I'm hearing. But we must wait, I think, to see what the paper says when it's actually delivered in Vienna.

ISCHINGER: The devil is in the details.

MANNING: Yes, let's see what is actually inside that letter when it comes.

BLITZER: But do you think you can trust the Iranian government, no matter what they agree to?

MANNING: Well, I think we have to be very vigilant. We have to be realistic. We have thought in the EU-3 that it is worth trying to engage Iran. We are very clear-sighted about this. But we think it's worth trying to engage them in a debate about their nuclear program. And we shall have to see.

I saw what the president said on Friday, that he supported this but that we would need proper verification. And of course we understand that. We shall need to be very vigilant. We shall need proper verification. And that's what we will try to ensure.

BLITZER: I'll give Ambassador Levitte the last word on Iran right now.

Is it your sense that this is going to be resolved peacefully, or will it be referred to the U.N. Security Council, where sanctions could be imposed?

LEVITTE: We have never excluded to go to the Security Council, if need be. But for the time being, as my two colleagues said, we are cautiously optimistic about the possibility to obtain a suspension, verifiable and complete, of enrichment procedures. And it will give time to try to reach a more global and permanent deal. And for that, probably we'll need to have America on board.

BLITZER: America what?

LEVITTE: On board, working with us and not waiting, encouraging (ph) us. We would like to see the U.S. administration joining our efforts, because that's very important to have more leverage.

BLITZER: We're going to leave it right there on that note.

Thanks to all three of you, the ambassadors from France, Germany and Great Britain, for joining us here on "LATE EDITION."

LEVITTE: Thank you.

ISCHINGER: Thank you.

MANNING: Thank you.